tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post117165579433086206..comments2024-03-15T00:12:57.489-07:00Comments on Covenant Zone: School Teachers with Gunstruepeershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-75183594979731172802007-02-19T16:50:00.000-08:002007-02-19T16:50:00.000-08:00To be clear, I am not calling Dag a Leninist, fasc...To be clear, I am not calling Dag a Leninist, fascist, etc., though he once wrote a post that made me fear that Lenin is his guilty secret model of a revolutionary, the evil dark side he has to learn to transcend. We all have such dark thoughts and transcendent needs. My point is that his elliptical and provocative style - which I take it is meant first to take us down a garden path and then prompt us to realize that we all are capable of evil, that there is some inescapable quantum of evil in all of us, and that we might have to be prepared to exercise some evil to avoid falling into a greater evil in future - might leave a lot of doubt in readers' minds about his commitment to our highest values and that he should do more to show his commitment.<BR/><BR/>In any case, the simple expression of the need, at times, for political violence should not be equated with fascism. Is George Bush a fascist for his doctrine of pre-emptive war in Iraq? Of course, that is what many are chanting, but it is a ridiculous chant, especially since many of the chanters are much closer to fascism than Bush.<BR/><BR/>Violence is sometimes a necessary evil in a moral politics. To be justified, I think the performance of a minimal necessary evil must provide a convincingly true, rational, and honest picture of the past to which we are responding and the future that is likely to arise if certain actions are or are not taken.<BR/><BR/>Fascism is a kind of narrowing, whether by glorifying or demonizing, of our understanding of the past, in order to justify some present violence that will bring in an equally narrowed vision of the possible future, one that fits with the limited understanding of the past as its solution or transformation into some kind of utopia.<BR/><BR/>If, however, we advocate violence in the present with an honest and not unduly blinkered understanding of the past and in an attempt to maximize the openness of the future, then we are in the world proposed by the likes of the Bush doctrine's campaign for democracy, not fascism.<BR/><BR/>I questioned Dag a while ago about his tendency to label Islam "fascism". It is certainly often a totalitarian system, but does it fit any useful understanding of that particular form of totalitarianism we call fascism, an evil outgrowth of western gnosticism and eschatology? He has yet to convince me that his use of the f word is always sound. But today he is otherwise occupied in a personal duty so I look forward to future chats at the library. He has a hard way of saying it, but I think he would like you to join us, na, as would the others...truepeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-83443942202417260862007-02-19T14:10:00.000-08:002007-02-19T14:10:00.000-08:00Anon, I'm sorry I can't do much today, having a pe...Anon, I'm sorry I can't do much today, having a personal project I must do instead. It would be far better anyway if you'd just show up and sit with us and have some -- well, I might even spring for the coffee, depending on state of my innately fascistic mood at the time.Daghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664271893389366772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-12600453629211691902007-02-19T14:07:00.000-08:002007-02-19T14:07:00.000-08:00"Even people who are supposedly familiar with your..."Even people who are supposedly familiar with your thinking (and thus more attuned to your literary style) note a similarity between the ideas in your post and the totalitarian philosophies of the 20th century."<BR/><BR/>I do not care about the nnumber or per centage of people who misread or misunderstand the points I make. Like is not same. It's not at all hard to distinguish between the just and the evil capricious.<BR/><BR/>I keep wasting my energies offering to buy you a cup of water at the library only because you've shown yourself at times as capable of responding honestly to sosme points, showing you can do it. Bujt i seldom see anything like that in sresponse to the points I make. Give me an honest precis of my thesis above and I'll go at it with you till you drop to your knees as a convert. And I will also give you half a cup of skim milk. No saucer unless you are very polite.Daghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664271893389366772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-13993412855624538272007-02-19T13:57:00.000-08:002007-02-19T13:57:00.000-08:00Very simple:1. You condemn your enemies as fascist...Very simple:<BR/><BR/>1. You condemn your enemies as fascists (or apologists for fascists)<BR/>2. Your views on the use of political violence dovetail with those of traditional fascists<BR/>3. Your condemnation of fascism is therefore hallow<BR/><BR/>Even people who are supposedly familiar with your thinking (and thus more attuned to your literary style) note a similarity between the ideas in your post and the totalitarian philosophies of the 20th century.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-30107856579118752902007-02-19T03:44:00.000-08:002007-02-19T03:44:00.000-08:00Anon, if you had an argument, perhaps even somethi...Anon, if you had an argument, perhaps even something bordering on an honest opiniion, I'd bee happy to discuss it with you. Try me.Daghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664271893389366772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-68818976722229044352007-02-18T15:47:00.000-08:002007-02-18T15:47:00.000-08:00hummm, that should read "aesthetic" rather than "a...hummm, that should read "aesthetic" rather than "ascetic." I should remember not to return to the scene of my own mangled writing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-1171832552865560712007-02-18T13:02:00.000-08:002007-02-18T13:02:00.000-08:00Dag: Your violent fantasies are fascinating. A min...Dag: Your violent fantasies are fascinating. A minor quibble. When I think of fascists, I normally think of people who worship state power and the ascetic of violence. Perhaps a guy who appears to promote limitless state authority (in the name of Modernity, of course) and readily endorses the frequent use of political violence (“they must be stopped at all costs, even at the cost of being shot to death on the streets in broad daylight without benefit of trials and courts”; “…the question is only how many we will kill as we do so”; “We will prevail, and the question is one of the number of the dead we will leave in our wake”; “Go forth and kill parents who interfere in your glorious work”; “Spread our Modernity to all through the barrel of a gun”) <B>should think twice about condemning his enemies as fascist.</B><BR/>naAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-1171727796597450262007-02-17T07:56:00.000-08:002007-02-17T07:56:00.000-08:00Dag, I agree with you. There will be no deferring ...Dag, I agree with you. There will be no deferring violence. Are we supposed to lie down and die?<BR/><BR/>We overcame Hiroshima. We can do the same again.<BR/><BR/>War is coming. Fight or die.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-1171667624838334342007-02-16T15:13:00.000-08:002007-02-16T15:13:00.000-08:00We all have resentment - it is a fundamental part ...We all have resentment - it is a fundamental part of the human condition. But our moral imperative is to try to defer more resentment than we create and encourage. That requires acts of faith. Deferral is another word for faith.truepeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-1171667279414652352007-02-16T15:07:00.000-08:002007-02-16T15:07:00.000-08:00I'm willing to try.I'm willing to try.Daghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664271893389366772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25624602.post-1171667107278591772007-02-16T15:05:00.000-08:002007-02-16T15:05:00.000-08:00Manifest Destiny provides Western man with all the...<I>Manifest Destiny provides Western man with all the theoretical background one needs to organise the mind to formulate and activate a plan of colonialism for the propagation of universal Modernity by filibustering.</I><BR/><BR/>-if that's true, and maybe it is, you haven't done much yet to show or convince me.<BR/><BR/><I>Those parents who make polio possible are not necessarily evil but they are harmful to the lives of children; and they must be stopped at all costs, even at the cost of being shot to death on the streets in broad daylight without benefit of trials and courts. Just shoot them. Is it right? Is it moral? Are we foisting our own unproven medical model imperialist ethos and capitalist meta-narratives on authentic peoples? Do I give a shit? Shoot them.</I><BR/><BR/>-So you don't give a shit, so what? Like it or not, so far you are unlikely to convince many people that you any better a modernist revolutionary than, say, Lenin, Hitler, or Mao. Making the trains run on time is not enough. And what about the great Cuban healthcare system? Should I give a shit that there's no polio in Cuba?<BR/><BR/><I>Should we impose our values on others simply because we can? Yes. And we should and must kill those who harm and kill there own children because those parents are violent and ignorant and vicious.</I><BR/><BR/>-Simply because we can? That's not much of an argument. What I sense here is a claim that Plato's Republic is superior to Islam. I'm not convinced.<BR/><BR/><I>Kill people with your guns. Spread our Modernity to all through the barrel of a gun. Everywhere an America of the mind.</I><BR/><BR/>-And after all the killing, exactly what kind of America of the mind will we have, and will it be worth living? How would we just stop the violence, sadism, and the guilt and live normally again?<BR/><BR/>It seems to me we have to find a harder and higher road. Deferring violence is not a bad idea if there is a real hope that our means of deferral will end up structuring a new kind of order in which kids will be vaccinated from polio and bad, war-mongering, religion. Why are you so sure no such form of deferral is possible? I have reason to hope and believe such deferral is possible and a necessary choice, which is not to say it can be chosen without also recognizing some need for pre-emptive violence. In any case, there is much room to deepen these arguments in a way that might engage readers.truepeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.com