Sunday, January 11, 2009

Five Feet of Fury Versus the Jihad

A handful of normal people went to the HAMAS rally yesterday at the Vancouver Art Gallery plaza to protest Islamic and Left dhimmi fascism. It snowed on us. It snowed on the fewer-than-last-time crowd of jihadis and their cheerleaders. But all was not well with us, though we were more than last time. Too many people on our side were intimidated by the rumor of violence from the jihadis. Our group, to give credit where it's due, did have the sense to come in from the rain, out of the freezing wind and the snow. We went for coffee and chat. Our disparate group, some who are little different from Leftists on most political points, sat with the rest of us and we talked about jihad and the future of our nations. A by-stander joined us. A good time was had by all. No, it's not enough. It's a start that we meet and talk. We do need to do more.

Take a look at Kathy Shaidle's experiences at Toronto's HAMAS hate-fest.

And then consider joining us for yet more talk on Thursday evening at VPL from 7-9:00 p.m. in the atrium for yet more coffee outside Blenz in the atrium.


Eowyn said...

"Too many people on our side were intimidated by the rumor of violence from the jihadis."

Dag ... if you ask me, this is the problem.

Too many people AROUND THE WORLD are "intimidated by the rumor of violence from the jihadis."

In truth, these "jihadis" are all sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Try balling up a fist and be willing to put it into a face. (After, of course, attempts at compromise-oriented conversation have failed.)

You'll see that a fist in the face -- even the prospect thereof -- encapsulates the whole conflict.

When rocks and hard places meet each other, ONLY dialogue will bridge the gap.

But dialogue can ONLY take place when one side realizes the other will not cave due to bullying.

"Jihadis" -- indeed, the whole Islamist extremist movement -- has been dependent on the cockroach method of dealing with conflict: That is, strike, and then disappear when the lights come on.

The truth has a way of shining light on all of us, insects and humans alike.

Keep the light on. Keep your hand muscles limber, in case a fist is needed.

And let 'em have it.

Dag said...

Truepeers and I both showed up fully expecting violence; and though neither of us is ever likely to initiate violence, outside of doing terrible damage to a hamburger, neither will we fall back from fear. Such is not the case among the vast majority of our fellows. That's got a name I won't note here.

Sanding up for ourselves even in the knowledge that there is a potential for violence is to say no to violence. Standing up to the violent is a means of preventing violence, as you so pithily point out in the cock-roach comparison. Running away encourages the violent to follow to do greater harm. That's irrational, in my opinion if not objectively in the world. OK, it's irrational plain and simple.

It is, I insist, mere co-incidence that my photo looks just like a sketch of Jean-Paul Marat, a major leader of the Terror in France. the man was extremely violent. He was also extremely rational about it. "Better to kill a thousand now than to kill 100 thousand later." He's known for that kind of saying. I can't claim he's the to-the-bone humanitarian type I am, but he wasn't stupid enough to think that running away will ever stop an enemy from pursuit. first we ensure our enemies are willing to listen, then we talk. Our enemies won't listen till it's in their interest to do so. Making them listen to Reason is in their interest. If they listen, then we can stop killing them. Not till then. It's just ordinary logic.

So, I think it requires a small but dedicated number of people who will act where others won't to ensure that the enemy finds it worth their while to listen, even if the majority of our own won't help us in that task. It's a humanitarian task we perform. I only advocate this action because I'm a nice guy. If I weren't I'd try to outrun all my friends.

Witness said...

Why do they always hold these rallys on Saturdays? Is it because the Jewish community is less likely organize and attend as opposition on their Sabbath?

If there is another rally like this I will gladly come out and sand by those of you who stand up terrosim, and who stand up to violence threatened against themselves. If you are able to post days/times/locations of these gatherings it could help me stay informed.

Witness said...

I had to post again after seeing that video of the Toronto rally on the Five Feet of Fury site linked to here.

Are those people mentally ill? Did that lady really yell right into the face of a Jew "Jewish Child you're going to die. Hamas is coming for you." It would be unbelievable, if it weren't so believable. But she is wrong about something. Hamas is not "coming" for the Jews. Hamas has already COME for the Jews. And this time the Jews know what to do about it.

That lady must have trouble finding a white hood to fit over her big head.

Jonathon Narvey said...

Just a few quick observations. Some of the people we talked to on Saturday were indeed intimidated into not showing up. Sad but true.

Not sure about emphasizing the need to "ball up a fist". The cops are present at all of these rallies. Frankly, I think such sentiments will only serve to alienate women and children who might come out to a counter-protest if things are properly organized.

The reason why we decided not to protest mostly had to do with a lack of logistical organization comparable to what the other side had: 30 organizations, some with paid staff whose purpose is to organize events like this. While I felt we'd made a point by standing there with our flags at a few previous protests, I was loath to mount a protest again with just a few people against hundreds on the other side.

So the strategy at this point seems to be to conserve our energies and resources and deploy them for a real organized demonstration of solidarity against proto-fascists. Agreed?

truepeers said...


I'll certainly join any organized pro-Israel rally, on the streets. We are not anywhere near a French revolutionary situation yet. I thought that was a pretty small crowd they had Saturday, all things considered, and many of them were the terminally resentful and naive in these insane organizations that are just desperate to parade on the streets but are not in any way mainstream. As you note, the police and government are still on the side of modernity; our government supports Israel.

What we need are people willing to stand up and say these people, or these ideas, or these parties, etc. are evil, and make this an everyday habit when some poseur is showing off about how much he hates what is good in this world. Antisemitism and anti-Americanism are growing evils and we need not a few people but a lot of people going around showing signs of their love for these nations. We can't stand up to that insanity with a few tough guys, but if the other side starts roughing people up on our streets and gets away with it, then we will need to organize an appropriate response. Let's see if the Toronto police act on those uttering threats.

Dag said...

None of us are out to pick a fight, least of all a girl five feet tall. And if anyone were to threaten a girl, even a woman 50 feet tall, I'd be there to defend her, and yes, I have seen her in the movie and know she wouldn't need me. The point is that we can't be afraid, no matter what-- in public.

Elsewhere in the city yesterday, one of our friends was confronted after being seen with a sticker from the synagogue. Nothing serious, as yet, but to the person involved, alone, it is frightening. And this evening, I got an attempt at intimidation. I brush it off because I'm not intimidated, maybe not capable of such a thing. Still, they try until they succeed. When they do, they become emboldened. Then one has to over-react. It's no good for anyone.

Yes, police here are fine. No so in San Francisco, where Jews were intimidated by the police. And we do not live in a police state. We need some haganah to live, even here.

There's no looking for a fight on our side. There is the need for men and women to sit down in public, like we at Covenant Zone have done each Thursday evening for the past three years, to sit in public and declare ourselves by our open sitting, that we are not intimidated. Won't be. Can't be. There's nothing violent in it, but it is self-defensive. We're here. We're staying. Others could join us in this public statement of individual freedom. It keeps the peace.

Vancouver visitor said...

Cops cannot protect you at all times. It is better to have a plan in place regardless of what the cops do.

Dag said...

Vancouver spent some time with us, I'm pleased to note. It's all part of our plan: to organise ourselves as community members around the world to defend freedom by standing against jihad and Left dhimmi fascism by sitting down and talking in public. We defend freedom just by being in the open, impervious to scowls and jeers. If many stand up by sitting down, it will become the norm, and peace will reign.

Or we can get up in the middle of the night to read a blurb from our state propaganda organ and find such as this:

" - 10 Jan 2009
TORONTO - Thousands of people, some using stark visual images to illustrate their outrage, demanded that Canada --not take sides-- in the ongoing Middle East conflict in -- pro-Palestinian -- demonstrations across the country Saturday."

Maybe I'm just sleepy at this time, but that looks to me like bushwah, as my ma would put it. Back to bed with this guy.

Anonymous said...

Apparently it's you guys who are the "Fascists" according to this tool:

This is the mentality that is pervasive amongst the lefty useful idiot crowd.

truepeers said...


we have previously felt a little sorry for Sean Orr, he being apparently oblivious to the great limits of his learning and yet still proving himself a regular reader of this blog. But now that he is expressing what appear to be genocidal wishes, I walk completely away from what I assume is a boy-man condemned to the pits of hell.

truepeers said...

here is the link that anon left to Sean Orr's rage. It was missing some of the URL.

Jonathon Narvey said...

My belated post on the weekend protest:

Dag said...

Downtown Eastside Enquirer also covers it well at:

"A Thousand Israel Supporters Turn Out to "Battle for Truth" Rally in Vancouver."

Vancouver visitor said...

Where's a Kahanist when you need one? Damn! Jews had better get their priorities straight.

To parody Witness: "Why do the Nazis have to do their Kristallnacht thing on a Saturday? That's sooooo inconvenient for us Jews because we cannot go in to sweep up the broken glass."

Look up from your navel and see the gun barrel pointing at you.

Dag said...

Vancouver Visitor, I understand your frustration with what I think of as "passivism', but we must allow for people to do what they can of themselves without too much complaint while others outdo us without complaint. And we must-- must-- recognize that this, as you know full well, is not simply a Jewish or Israeli problem but a world problem.

I'm s frustrated as anyone else I know, but I also understand the benefit of Shabbat. It's real, and it's important. For those who observe it, I wish I could say I too join them. I don't. I won't. I lack that benefit. Whether others gain from me not doing so, I can't say. But we DO benefit from those who do.

Witness said...


I don't know that your "parody" of my words is useful here, nor is your twist on the meaning of my words.

I was just speculating that, the reality being that many Jewish groups will not organize on their Sabbath, organizing a rally on Saturday of all days could be an indication of the Haters' lack of willingness and ability to engage in conversation and debate with their opposition.

I was not making excuses for passivism. In fact, knowing many, I can say that Sabbath observers for the most part are anything but passive. Observant Jews are involved in all kinds of efforts that extend beyond walking the streets with signs and slogans. Choosing to observe Sabbath as opposed to going to a rally says NOTHING of one’s priorities.

You mentioned Kahana. Wasn’t he a Sabbath Observer? He had lots of radical ideas and strategies, but ignoring Sabbath was not one of them.

A philosophical question: Being that Sabbath observance is a big part of Jewish identity to many people, by suggesting that Jews should abandon this part of their identity in order to protest a bunch of loud mouths, isn't one actually kind of playing into the whole effort of the anti-Semites to annihilate Judaism? Haters are trash talking Jews 24/7/365, and if Jews tossed aside their observances every time someone trash talked them then there would be no more observance, and without that, to many, there would be no more Jewish identity.

Saturday is when alliances come into play. Those who do observe the Sabbath gain and benefit from their alliances with those of us who don’t observe it.

The power of prayer too should not be discounted. Nor should the value of community that is built when Jews observe Sabbath, and when they gather together weekly in Synagogues.

And make no mistake, Jews do, and in fact they are commanded to, disregard the laws of Sabbath when there is imminent threat. And there is a long history of observant Jews doing just that when it was called for.