Thursday, January 15, 2009

Vote for Israel

Because no one can yet vote freely in "Palestine".

Ari writes me about this web poll:
Apparently CNN is pushing a poll showing that 66% vs. 33% of Americans favor "Palestine" over Israel in the war in Gaza. We must respond with numbers and be heard. We must stand together. Thousands of these emails are going out across the world right now. Be a part of supporting Israel. See also the hateful messages being left if you need motivation to become involved. Please pass this to all concerned.


If you have not already done so, please click on the link and then
simply click on the Israeli flag.

http://www.israel-vs-palestine.com/gz/


PLEASE contact everyone you know to vote...

It will take only an instant of your time
Of course opinion polls can be easily manipulated. If CNN is only doing a web poll for its audience to respond to, one would expect they take to heart and reflect the false sentimentalization of the victims of war that CNN pumps out. Most people can respond to a picture of a dead person with basic human revulsion; most people cannot understand why war is sometimes an evil necessity.

In fact, what I think is going on now is a further polarization in world opinion between those who now more certainly see what kind of a threat the ideology promoted by Hamas is to to the world and to the Palestinian people themselves, and those who want to live all the more in a fantasy where war is outlawed and the UN exists to keep the peace, rather than what it presently exists in large part to do: scapegoat realistic and modern nations like Israel for reminding us that there is something wrong with our fantasy about one day transcending war. And then, of course, there are the many who support Jihad for a similar fantasy about a world at peace once Islam conquers all.

See, for example, this report from the Christian Science Monitor on how many in Europe are turning to support for Israel because they see all-too-close-to-home the real nature of the Global Intifada. When the street violence becomes a daily nightmare for Europeans, clearly directed at them as "Infidels", many can no longer believe the global media when it scapegoats Israel as the cause of Islamic rage.

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

The Truth must be made known

Israel must be free

The Truth Must be known

Dag said...

This issue is about Israel. But it's only about Israel partly, and then not even mostly or even greatly. This issue is about how we view the point or purpose of living. Much and perhaps the greatest part of this issue is the hatred that arises among many that the masses have a good material life. I look at the Left and see a burning hatred among them for the "middle-classes" who own houses and who drive cars and dress nicely and eat properly. I call this hatred "Povertarianism."

If one values the life of the average person in a state of relative prosperity, if one cares about the people having food and shelter and a hope of even better to come, then you would be welcome to sit with us this evening at the library to have-- coffee. Yes, the beans imported from vast distances to us in Canada. Coffee, the worthless nutrients of coffee that make the life of the middle-classes somewhat better if only in a small way. And one can sit on plastic mass-manufactured chairs. I love this stuff. I love the idea that all people everywhere can and should have plastic stuff. And coffee. Join us and celebrate Plastic. It is democracy in action. Those who despise plastic are unwelcome, in my opinion. If having an inferiour product that is superiour to poverty and want, then join us. Celebrate Humanity. Have coffee with us.

hacofe said...

Dag,you certainly can express yourself in absolute clarity( complite controversy to what you described before!).Thanks.
Be well,please.One day we may meet.
Ari

Dag said...

Ari, I'd go to Israel again just for the sake of having coffee with you. And the coffee is terrible!

Next year in Jerusalem, Ari.

My best to you, friend, and to all.

Eowyn said...

WHAT a lot of hoops I was asked to jump through, just to respond to this particular poll.

Accident? Nope. I know better. So I responded. Properly. After a lot of effort.

What we are looking at, here, is Reality. With a capital R. That is:

Israel: Do Not Launch Rockets At Undefined Targets For Any Reason Whatsoever.

(Why? Because you DON'T TARGET YOUR WIVES, SISTERS, BROTHERS, WHOMEVER, TO BE KILLED, FOR ANY REASON. This is Jewish modus operandi 101. You just don't let them be victims.)

So, what if the Hamas idiots launch rockets at you? And suppose that the international community decides that they actually have the RIGHT (!) to do so?

First, you have to assess the immediate impact. Then, you must look at a possible short-term solution.

My thinking: You stop rocket attacks, and I will stop very bad consequences.

Alas ... this takes thinking.

Witness said...

Regrets that I can not come out for coffee and plastic tonight, as I have to work. But one day I will be honoured to attend and meet you all.

Anyone planning to protest the Hamas Love Fest this Saturday?

truepeers said...

Look forward to meeting you Witness. Not sure yet about this Saturday

Dag said...

I just hit the Israel flag button and that was it for me, though I did this yesterday, so things might have changed. My only concern with it is that morality seems to be a popularity contest. I'd rather be right than liked.

Witness, we had a nice evening, a friend from the city showing up to find out about us, and having done so, is going to return.We knew our friend from the Internet, like we know you, and it was just by chance that at a HAMAS rally a few weeks back I ran into people with Israeli flags, one of whom is our friend of this evening. We met a few times for coffee, and this evening he joined in our group for a few hours. Nice, huh? I'm looking forward to meeting you, too.

And, Eowyn, you can do what we do in Vancouver: you can meet friends for coffee once a week to discuss our shared interests and so on. Our friend Baltic Waves outside Chicago did so, as did Tom outside of NYC, Sebastian in Paris, and my favorite of all times, the unstoppable Mauccusgemanis in Alabama. Well, not the library for him and friends, more like Hooters. Not for me, I find, in that the librarian sent me to the ornithology section when I asked. But whatever works.

We might well go protesting again on Saturday. It's up in the air so far.

Oh, maybe that's what the ornithology study is about. But I still don't get it.

Jenn said...

You people make me sick!!! How dare you think that war can ever be an evil necessity?? I mean, listen to yourselves!!! Nothing you say makes sense, and nothing you do is proportionate! Even your rabbi's say that the state of Israel cannot exist! As long as Israel exists, evil will poison this world! How can you justify kicking people out of their own homes to build your own? You must be animals who belong in the jungle to even think for one second that this is acceptable! You are inhuman, and you are sick.. It's a disease and i feel truly sorry for you!

Dag said...

Jenn Hitler? Is that you? Long time now see. How are you?

Jenn said...

Hitler??!! I like your sense of humour at the expense of thousands of people who are being slaughtered as we speak! Israel must be free?? Oh right, free Israel by Killing Palestinians and ejecting them off their land, demolishing their homes, stealing their water, cutting off their electricity, and THEN... building cities on stolen land, and putting up signs that read "Jews only!" You must be proud!! Yes, that is something to be proud of, if you are a dirty person with no shame or self-respect!! It's disgusting that Israel is the only place in this world that actually has signs up on roads and areas allowing 'Jews only'!! ... And don't you find it interesting that the WHOLE world is behind Palestine???? Open your eyes!! Look around you and stop being ignorant! Educate yourself!

maccusgermanis said...

Those descendants of Umar may have noticed during their occupation a certian deed held openly and notariously? Really, you should drop the "our land was stolen," as it will eventually turn against you.

I noticed a sliver of hope at the linked poll though. 6.4% of Iranian respondents support Israel.

Amy said...

WAIT decendants of Umar-- HA HA ..obviously u are as ignorant as ur ZIONIST GOV'T and PEOPLE!! firstly we are not decendents of umar u ignorant person.....and maybe u should read your own torah..... your people have always disobeyed God- and still continue to do so today.... I find it funny how u state that what 6.4% iranians support Israel..whoopidty whoo whoo....and what about the others huh?? or how about thse in Canada or the UK or how about the WORLD....even better..how about in ISRAEL...ur gov't kills its own soldiers but u people are too blind to see it becasue they have u all stupidified by ur own media....how about the soldeir s who are agasint this war and have voiced their opinion against the ILLEGAL OCCUPATION- whihc by the way is recognized my the UN - but wait the UN is not in ur vocabulary since u are all experts at breaking the law...all i say is what goes around comes around..so beware.

truepeers said...

How dare you think that war can ever be an evil necessity??

-because that's reality, not just for Jews, but for anyone who wants to survive hateful nuts like you.

I mean, listen to yourselves!!! Nothing you say makes sense, and nothing you do is proportionate!

-it makes sense to me and I am clearly better educated than you. The Western way of war is to bring war to a decisive end as quickly as possible, not to let it fester in endless tit for tat. Why don't you try to understand why this ethic has developed historically.

Even your rabbi's say that the state of Israel cannot exist!

-don't be an ignorant fool; there is but one small Jewish sect that is anti-Zionist. Why do you think Israel is home to many rabbis? And why do you assume the writers at this blog are Jewish?

How can you justify kicking people out of their own homes to build your own

-Israel was founded by immigrants who overwhelmingly bought the land they occupied.

You must be animals who belong in the jungle to even think for one second that this is acceptable! You are inhuman, and you are sick.. It's a disease and i feel truly sorry for you!

-And you wonder why Jews may feel obliged to defend themselves against people who are obsessed with such dehumanizing nonsense?

THEN... building cities on stolen land, and putting up signs that read "Jews only!"

-there are no such signs; that is a lie. And as for war, Israel has never wanted it; it is the Arabs who have continuously fought against Israel's existence since before Israel became a modern state. If they accepted Israel and took it as a model of what a modern nation in the Middle East can be, maybe they too would enjoy some of the fruits of modernity; In any case the Palestinian population has greatly increased since the founding of modern Israel; this is because the Arabs have benefitted greatly from Western medicine, food, and technology.

Look around you and stop being ignorant! Educate yourself!

-I'm sorry but you haven't a clue how uneducated and ignorant you are. What would we have to do to begin to recognize that we share a common reality? To listen to you, the answer sounds like: war. But heh, we've been hearing that for a long time now.

If you have nothing sober and reasonable to say, you can assume your future posts will be deleted from this blog.

truepeers said...

your people have always disobeyed God

-that's a insane claim; care to elaborate?

ur gov't kills its own soldiers but u people are too blind to see it becasue

-again, this sounds like the ravings of a mentally ill person; care to elaborate? Can you imagine anything happening in history that is not part of some Jewish conspiracy?

all i say is what goes around comes around..so beware.

-this is precisely the attitude that encourages Palestinians to "martyr" themselves rather than come to terms with reality, with the existence of Israel. You only encourage much more killing and "martyrdom" with this talk. Furthermore, if you one day do succeed in wiping out all the Jews, it won't solve anything for you: you will still be an angry person to your core, you will still have an identity that needs "jews" to blame; but you will find new "jews"; you are a person who doesn't know how to live in the modern free world and you won't learn how as long as you are obsessed with scapegoating fantasies.

You may also assume that if you cannot show any calm reasoning that your future posts will also be deleted from this blog.

Witness said...

"As long as Israel exists, evil will poison this world!"
Jenn,
You are right about one thing; the whole world IS behind Palestine… including Israel. Israel is, however, against terrorism. But that is all you are right about. There are no “Jews Only” roads in Israel. That is nonsense. As is everything else you have said.
You give Israel a lot of credit. As if a country less than 2/3 the size of Vancouver Island can be responsible for all the problems in the world. And the rest of the Middle East with all their land mass and oil money is powerless to contribute positively as long as Israel exists. Give your head a shake, does that make any sense? You are too stupid to represent the Palestinians and they will never prosper as long as morons like you are the ones advocating for them. Your understanding of the world is clearly warped.
In your mind I'm sure you think you are a humanitarian. But in reality you are too dumb to realize that you are just a common bigot. If you really believed in the humanitarianism that you THINK you believe in then you would have opened you mouth at some point when terrorists were lobbing rocks at civilians in Israel. Or when a terrorist group spilled Arab blood overthrowing the rightful leaders of the Palestinians in Gaza just a year and a half ago. And if you want to pretend that Hamas is an actual a political movement as opposed to a terrorist group, then a good humanitarian like you would have opened her big mouth at some point about their treatment of women, gays, and minorities. But no, you only open mouth to trash talk Israel and her supporters. To you it is justified for one side to use violence and war as a political tool, but when the other side has a violent response you start crying give peace a chance. Hypocrite. Racist. Why don't you take on some causes you actually understand, like baking muffins or making tie-dyed t-shirts.

Witness said...

Amy,
You mention the UN. Didn’t the UN sanction Israel? Israel was created by the UN, and Israel’s existence is 100% LEGAL under the UN. Yet YOU don’t think Israel is a legitimate country. Seems to me you pick and choose when you want to use the UN as a source depending on when it suits your argument.

maccusgermanis said...

"firstly we are not decendents of umar u ignorant person"

From whom do you claim descent?

truepeers said...

The problem with the UN, as I see it, is that it declares the existence of a Palestinian nation and authority but when this nation and authority act in ways that no sane nation or state would - refusing to negotiate the existence and security of a more powerful neighbor - the UN does not say, come to terms with reality, with Israel, or we will cut you loose. No, it says, you don't have to come to terms with reality, you can forever put off negotiations until you feel strong enough to dictate terms; for now, just play the victim; we will continue to insist on the existence of a Palestinian nation and state so you don't have to negotiate with hard realities you may not like; no, instead of negotiating like an adult, you can just be the victim and appeal to the UN like a judge or a father to set everything straight for you. All you have to do is encourage your people to live in eternal hatred of Israel and to martyr yourselves so that people in the West can see the dead bodies and feel forever righteous in supporting a "nation" that is little more than a projection of guilt and desire.

truepeers said...

The UN scapegoats Israel in defense of the UN's founding fantasy that the modern world can become One World without war. Israel's need as a modern nation to take risks in trying to change a deadly stand off, to go to war to defend itself by showing that it will deter and punish those who attack it, puts that Utopian fantasy to shame.

But some people are too full of the fantasy to recognize its unreality. And those who support the UN's endless parade of hateful resolutions against Israel (while the many other more deadly conflicts are ignored, because brown people killing brown people doesn't disturb their myth that modernity will soon bring us One World UNited as does a modern high tech "white" nation like Israel) are racists who are too stupid because they somehow think they are above racism and hate.

truepeers said...

A little reading:

"The intellectual father of French Revolution, Voltaire, wrote of the Children of
Abraham: “They are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the
Bretons and Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least surprised if
these people would not some day become deadly to the human race.” This observation
came at a time when European Jews cowered in ghettos.
Anticipating the Holocaust, 19
th
century French socialist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
had his own solution to the Jewish problem – “either sending back the Jews to Asia or
exterminating them.”
French anti-Semitism was the original impetus for Zionism. Theodor Herzl, an
assimilated Austrian Jew, was so shocked when he encountered Parisian mobs shouting
“Death to the Jews” during the Dreyfus Affair, that he was moved to write Der
Judenstaat (“The Jewish State), starting a movement which would lead to the
establishment of the State of Israel within 50 years.
The father of racist theory, Joseph-Arthur de Gobineau (1816-1882), was a
Frenchman whose advocacy of Aryan supremacy influenced Hitler.
Page 3
In all of occupied Europe, the Nazis found no more willing accomplices to the
Final Solution than the French. The Vichy government rounded up 61,000 Jews and
handed them over to the Nazis – almost all died at places like Auschwitz.
By contrast, the Italian army (allied with Germany) saved Jews in its zone of
occupation in Southern France. The commander of these troops said it was “against the
honor of the Italian army” to allow the deportation of Jews in territory it controlled. (The
honor of the French army is illustrated by the scapegoating of Capt. Alfred Dreyfus.)
The post-war era saw little improvement in the attitude of the French government
toward a people it’s never wanted and whose presence it deeply resents.
On November 28, 1967 (shortly after the Six Day War) then-President Charles
DeGaulle told a press conference that the Jews are “an elite people, self confident, and
domineering.” This from the leader of a nation universally celebrated for its humility.
DeGaulle (who hated Americans as well), also charged that the Jewish people
were responsible for “provoking ill-will in certain countries at certain times.”
Presumably, by breathing.
This animus cuts across the political spectrum. Francois Mitterrand, socialist
president of France from 1981 to 1995, reportedly shared the sentiments of his
predecessor regarding the Jews.
In 2001, Daniel Bernard, France’s ambassador to Britain, was overheard telling
guests at a cocktail party that the world’s problems were all the fault of “that shitty little
country, Israel.” Why, the ambassador wondered aloud, “should the world be in danger of
World War III because of those people” (diplomatese for “the Jews.”). Ah, that Gallic
charm.
For decades, a rabid anti-Zionism has infused French foreign policy. (Recall that
France financed the building of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear reactor, destroyed by Israel in
1981.)
In the 1970s, France made a devil’s pact with the PLO. Arafat’s killers would be
allowed to operate on la belle pays (and plan attacks on Jews from there) as long as they
didn’t engage in terrorism on French soil. The French are adept at looking the other way,
while others die.
It took Paris roughly three years of arson, assaults , sniper attacks and
desecrations to finally admit that all was not well in its multicultural paradise. Initially, it
simply denied reality.
In 2002, Chirac professed to be shocked and saddened that anyone would think
there was anti-Semitism in France.
Page 4
The President of the Republic assured us: “There is no upsurge in anti-Semitism
in France … nothing supports these statements” and that “France and all of its authorities
remain very vigilant in this domain, and are extremely severe in punishing any of its
manifestations, whatever they may be.”
Anti-Semites weren’t deceived. In the Spring of 2003, Parisians protesting the US
invasion of Iraq chanted, “Vive Chirac. Stop the Jews!”
In 2001, the president of the Representative Council of the Jewish Organizations
of France wrote in Le Monde: “The leaders of the country like to play down anti-Semitic
acts. They prefer to see these as ordinary violence. We are deluged with statistics
designed to show that an attack against a synagogue is an act of violence and not anti-
Semitism.”
I’m only surprised Chirac didn’t also insist that there was no anti-Semitism in
France during the Dreyfus Affair or in World War II. (It’s just a coincidence that all
61,000 of its citizens sent to the gas chambers happened to be Jews.) The French have an
expression: “The more things change, the more they remain the same.” In reality, there
are few matters the French care about less than the fate of Jews – in France or anywhere
else.
The center of European anti-Semitism is also a hotbed of anti-Americanism. Like
the Jews, Americans are indicted for “arrogance.”
America is charged with the unpardonable offense of unilateralism. Pity that old
warmonger Churchill acted unilaterally after France was overrun in 1940. And, just think,
the British prime minister didn’t even have a mandate from the League of Nations.
Like Americans, the Jews are resented for their success – which may be
contrasted with the ennui and quiet failure of old Europe.
There is the feeling, almost universal among the French, that if the Jews and
Americans were less assertive (i.e., rolled over and played dead), all of humanity’s
problems would go away.
Those Jews/Israelis, why can’t they just give the Palestinians a state -- and give
themselves suicide borders in the process -- the French ask?
Similarly, it is asserted that if America would just leave tyrants (and French
trading partners) like Saddam Hussein alone, peace would reign supreme.
If we’d just turn everything over to the international debating society on the East
River, instead of exercising our sovereign right of self-defense, France and the rest of
nonaligned Europe could go quietly to the grave without having their three-hour lunches
disturbed.
Page 5
French hatred of Americans and Israelis is the rage of the impotent toward those
with an intact survival instinct."

Don Feder

Witness said...

Time to sing "Hello Martyr, Hello Fatah" in C major

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M85VTzxY6ks&feature=channel

Dag said...

I can't get video on this machine, so tel me if my guess is right: "Camp Intifada."

Witness said...

They don't go to Camp Intifada in this song, but maybe you could write another verse...

Dag said...

I remember the tune from my childhood, and some of the lines and the over-all theme of it. In light of that, the kid complains how terrible it is at camp, exaggerating to comic effect. At the end of the tune he's actually very pleased to be there and doesn't wish to return home as yet.

Now, does any of that seem just like the line taken by HAMAS? Oh, it's so terrible; but really, we don't want to stop.

Eowyn said...

"When the street violence becomes a daily nightmare for Europeans, clearly directed at them as "Infidels", many can no longer believe the global media when it scapegoats Israel as the cause of Islamic rage."

Good point. How many car-be-ques will Europe take before it wakes up?

(See: http://tinyurl.com/8pvrb2)

But then, reality is so yesterday for posters like Jenn and Amy.

Dag said...

I argue that no matter how terrible conditions become in Europe or America there will be no resistance till there is a solid and professional resistance leadership. That will come about, one way or another, simply because the Human mind is active, and someone, somewhere, will take up the task out of frustration or boredom or aptitude. Someone will lead, and he might be our worst nightmare if we do nothing to lead ourselves responsibly.

Someone leads the Amys and the other mindless maniacs, and with that leadership and the slogans they provide, Amy and that lot have a reason to like themselves, being, in their tiny minds, part of a large, stronger whole, a group identity that allow them the "Escape From Freedom" that Eric Fromm describes so nicely in his book. We have to provide a means to preserve and extend freedom in oppostion, and it's not a simple tsk of providing simple-minded slogans and easy appeals to emotion. It takes, for us, long hours and weeks and years of discussion to come to real understandings of the Human as the Good.

Thus, I urge all again to meet in pulic to discuss and think through our positive alternatives to mass-hate the Left provide for those who refuse freedom. It might not be easy to assemble people, as Maccusgermanis knows from his experience, but it is essential if we are to win this particular battle in our time, leaving the next to the next generation, perhaps with our example to guide them.

Vancouver visitor said...

Where were these screechy semi-literate nitwits when the Lebanese army attacked and besieged the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp in Lebanon for three months back in 2007?

Charles Henry said...

Jenn:

How dare you think that war can ever be an evil necessity??

Ever hear of the Second World War, Jenn? It was in all the papers. Wasn't that a necessary war?

And don't you find it interesting that the WHOLE world is behind Palestine????

I've asked the following question of others, never gotten an answer. I'll ask it of you, and see what happens:

Do you believe the percentage of people who share an opinion validates that opinion as a moral truth? If 51% of the population believe something to be morally tolerable, heck if 99% believe something to be moral, is it the large number that makes it so?
Or might there something else to factor in, as well...

If only 1% believe something to be morally intolerable, are they automatically wrong, because they are so few?

Gandhi said that if even only one person knew the Truth, it's still the Truth. Was he wrong to say so?

If someone is accused of a crime that they didn't commit, and they are the only one who can know the truth of their innocence, because of regrettable coincidences and damning circumstantial evidence... does that mean that they really did commit the crime after all? Theirs is the minority opinion....

If numbers and numbers alone justify, as you, and so many others on your side, seem to believe, then...

...what about slavery?

How long-lasting, how common, how prevalent was the evil of slavery throughout history... and how was it stopped throughout the west?

A minority believed it to be intolerable, a brave minority stood against the world; a world that (the best that can be said about them) was malevolently indifferent towards the evil of slavery. (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, by assuming that you and I share a revulsion for slavery)

Were the Christian abolitionists morally wrong for risking their lives to bring an end to slavery in North America in the 1840s and 1850s? They were a very tiny minority, indeed. Did that number make them wrong? Do numbers, alone, dictate morality?

Bottom line: Is a minority wrong, simply because they're a minority?

Or is there something more, something else, also necessary to light the path we walk when we seek Truth...

Russel Bertrand said...

Someone referred me to this site.

No one writing here has ever been to war.

It's easy to talk of taking life.

The writer's here are chicken-hawks who enjoy leading from behind.

I won't be back

Dag said...

Good-bye to the man who gets it all backward. Morely sissed.

Witness said...

I don't know who here has been to war and who hasn't. I can say for sure that the decision makers in Israel have ALL been to war, and ALL live under threat of war daily. I would bet they have seen more war than you, Russel. So if war experience is what gives opinions legitimacy then you should have no disputes with Israel.

Dag said...

Russel is a parody of Bertrand Russell, a first-class idiot intellectual out of his depth out of his field, which was lost to him after his 20s. B.R. went on in life living off his reputation as a mathematician, becoming a Soviet propagandist, an anti=war activist, and eventually a doddering old fool whose mind was shot and whose late work was issued by a man who wrote under Russell's name. This parodic version isn't that smart.